An Open Letter to Bhakta Mladen

Greetings Bhakta Mladen, Hare Krishna.
Upon considering all the warped ideas you presented to me in the exchange we had not long ago (about theorigination of jiva), I’ve been contemplating the ways as to how I can confront these major philosophical contradictions, bringing them to an end (and an end to your confusion). On the other hand, everything we managed so far between ourselves in our day-to-day activities (whenever we would meet) was working quite nicely.

However, can it really go on unless this issue is resolved? This letter that I write to you is a sort of challenge, although notentirely antagonistic, but also not a friendly challenge. Nothing in it is personally against you as a spirit soul. However, it is confrontational against the misconceptions that you’re nourishing within yourself for far too long.
I am being sharp in tone here, not harsh. By now, you surely know where I’m getting this knowledge from, so that should be of no surprise to you. Either accept it with realization and higher intelligence or you can continue pushing your Neo-Mutt speculations.

You offered me a book to read as your shortcut to avoid argumentation (and that offerwas confrontational). Today, I’m offering you a summary refutation. Be kind enough to take the time and read over what is being written here. Please note: It is going to be posted, so take what I am saying is not only for the POTENTIAL benefit of your good self.

In your unauthorized attempt to rationalize the apa-siddhanta of ‘No-Fall’ in our conversation (the dumbing down of a much higher principle of Free Will), your emphasis was Absolute Intelligence. Either knowingly or unknowingly, you are advocating and defending a form of covert Mayavada philosophy promulgated by Neo-Mutt (a.k.a., new Gaudiya Math). That’s why I claim that you are rather more confused than knowledgeable. We both know well what Srila Prabhupada said about his guru’s aftermath institution, which is the foundational reason of my confronting you about this in order to understand Prabhupada properly.
As such, the ultimate issue is not absolute intelligence; instead, the real issue is FREE WILL. Yes, we have absolute intelligence, but we are eternally subordinate. Lord Narayana, Lord Krishna, Lord Ramachandra–They are eternally served and eternally the enjoyer of your eternal service! You were created to give eternal service, but you were given the option of Free Will (which is not given to the shakti-tattva, but it’s only given to the tatastha-shakti). On this issue of origination, by misuse of your free will, you are choosing wrongly.
We are given various enjoyments here which are not actually allowed, which imitate the Supreme Lord in a very perverted way. He provides us the material universe for this. However, the laws of karma are very stringent, especially vikarma (the bad karma division). Krishna can give us the option to rebel, because of free will. And let us remember what that rebellion is: It’s the desire—the will–to be the Supreme Lord and the envy of Him being the Supreme Lord. Both that desire and that envy are based on not wanting to remain subordinate, but our creation is eternally subordinate! You’re given–as jiva-tattva, as tattastha-shakti–the free will to take an imitation identification.
When we do so, we can be put into a state of complete forgetfulness during that imitation, which the vast majority of human beings on Earth are in, viz., complete forgetfulness. Overwhelming majority! Because that’s what they want, and they don’t want to be reminded: “You’re eternally subordinate, but you’ve misused your free will!” The real issue isn’t absolute intelligence:


Do you desire to serve the Supreme Lord and please Him? Or do you desire to serve yourself as the Supreme Lord, as an imitation. It is then you are hurled into a facsimile of the spiritual world, in which you have to go through all kinds of difficulties–painful and embarrassing situations–in order to be that perverted enjoyer for a short time. After all of that, you get the kick of the vikarmic reactions. You’re emphasizing absolute intelligence. However, the jiva-tattva is endowed with more: He’s endowed with FREE WILL.

Here’s the quote that you have provided from Jaiva Dharma–or rather, some kind of translation of it:

There are unlimited jivas who are eternal Associates of the Lord in Goloka Vrindavana. They are manifested by Lord Baladev for the service of Lord Krishna. In my Vaikuntha, they are manifested by Sri Sankarshan for the service of Lord Narayana, the Lord of Vaikunta. They are eternally and blissfully engaged in the service of their swarupa, always striving to make the Lord happy, always favorable to the service of the Lord and all this powerful with the energy of the chit Shakti. They have absolutely no relation or contact with the inert Maya indeed they do not even know that there is an energy called Maya because they live in the spiritual region; Maya remains very far from them. They are always absorbed in the Bliss of service to their worshipable Lord.

They’re transcendental to mundane misery and happiness and are always liberated. Their very life is love and they have no conception of lamentation fear and death. The atomic conscious jivas who come out like rays from Maha Vishnu’s glance at Maya are also uncountable, being in proximity to Maya; these jivas see the variegatedness of Maya. They have all the characteristics of the ordinary jivas as described before. Yet, because of their atomic nature they sometimes glance marginally towards the spiritual creation and sometimes towards the material creation. In this marginal state, the jiva is weak, because he has not yet attained spiritual power by the mercy of the worshipable Lord. Out of these unlimited jivas, the ones who desire to enjoy Maya, remain eternally bound by Maya, because of being attached to sense enjoyment. Those who engage in devotional service to the Lord go to the spiritual World getting the strength of the cit.”

That there are jivas that come from Balarama and that there are jivas coming from the Maha-Sankarsana is not a new preaching point, although it may not be entirely accurate. What we DO know for CERTAIN (from Prabhupada’s books) is that they come from Maha-Sankarsana. However, we don’t know from Prabhupada’s books that they come from Balarama. As such, can we really know that what you read is definitely Bhaktivinode Thakur’s words? Did Prabhupada translate Jaiva Dharma? Negative. The later translator might have translated it with a couple of errors here and there–or it might be totally accurate! Yet, we really can’t know for sure, can we?

It appears to be “an extremely strong argument” that we never fell from the spiritual world. However, nowhere in that translation is the statement that those who came out of Balarama or those who came out Maha-Sankarshana cannot fall down–there’s no such statement in there! It just states that they’re initially engaged in some way after emanation.
Throughout Prabhupada’s books, free will is emphasized, and the name of his magazine was called “Back to Godhead”– BACK!b-a-c-k to Godhead.
You are postulating, on the other hand, that there are jivas which come out of Balaram, jivas that come out Maha-Sankarshana, and then there are jivas that come out of Maha Vishnu. In what context is that true?!
I’ve never read in any Prabhupada’s books that there are jivas that come out of Balarama, I’ve never read it, but is it possible? Certainly. Is it probable? I don’t know, but I can say it’s possible that it is true. However, I don’t know it from Prabhupada’s books in guru paramapara; I don’t know that. I do know about jivas coming from Maha-Sankarshana. And I do know about Maha-Vishnu, but is that the origination of those jivas?
Now why — this is the one of the absurd things about your assertions–why would some jiva emanating from Maha-Vishnu be in a buffer region where he has the power of choice, the power of free will? He only knows Maha-Vishnu, since the jiva is emanating from Him on the Karana Ocean. Neither of them are in the spiritual world per se. The connection there is the Karana Ocean, the causal ocean, previous to brahmajyoti.
Maha-Vishnu is totally spiritual, but is that jiva ORIGINALLY emanating from Him?He’s emanating from Maha-Vishnu, and he gets thrown into Maya. Also take into consideration the chain of events that such emanations come through Shambu . . .


Under the spell of your Neo-Mutt apa-siddhanta, we’re lead to assume that there’s a third division of jivas which don’t get emanated from Balaram or Maha Sankarshana but that are emanated outside of the spiritual world, through Maha-Vishnu. And then the jiva has the choice whether to go to Maya or not? Where is the opportunity for such a choice?
Whenever I’ve read about Shambu coming out of Maha-Vishnu (and the jivas along with him) and impregnating Maya, whenever I’ve read about it, there’s no choice involved! Where’s the choice Mladen, where?!?


According to Neo-Mutt speculation, the Supreme Controller arranges for an origination for jivas, where (supposedly and very illogically) they have a choice (which I’ve never read about in relation to Maha-Vishnu and the emanation from Shambu). Where’s the choice? Karana Ocean is not the spiritual world! The spiritual world begins at brahma-nirvana, but Maha-Visnu is lying on rough, purified ocean of water below that!

Another flaw should be admitted: (1) Those jivas that emanate from Balarama (allegedly), and (2) those that emanate from Maha-Sankarshana, definitely. Those jivas: They have free will? By the description of this account you gave to me from the alleged Jaiva Dharma translation, how can you say they have free will? They get emanated, and they eternally have relationship with the Supreme Lord, either on Goloka or in Narayan loka.

Do you see the arbitrariness?

Do you see the injustice embedded in the arbitrariness?

They’re shakti-tattva in essence according to your nitya-siddha apa-siddhanta. Or, if we say that they get emanated from Maha Sankarshana (and they are shakti-tattva of that nature, the Vaikuntha nature) on Narayana-lokas, they can’t fall down; where’s the free will? They may have it, but do they ACTUALLY have it? If they can’t fall down, where is it?

However, if they’re emanated into the buffer region, beyond the impersonal brahmajyoti, the buffer region (those six regions previous to the seventh gate), then we get an answer which makes total sense. You get an answer that is not arbitrary and not loaded with injustice!

We now come to the fatal flaw of this Neo-Mutt apa-siddhantha: All humans are automatically in the condemned (nitya-baddha) third category! You are part of the category, also. The unfortunates. Allegedly, we did have free will and supposedly executed it (but how was that done?). Shambu takes the jivas and impregnates Maya with them: Where’s the free will?! Anyway, everyone advocating this apa-siddhanta is part of that third most unfortunate division of jiva-tattva. However, what you are trying to conceptualize and push cannot be conceptualized. It is contradictory.

From Maha-Vishnu, they can see and be attracted by the material world? First, they are already in the material world! And then they are hurled from Maha-Vishnu into Maya. And from that position: “they’ve never fallen down.” Utterly absurd! You claim that they have fallen down, because they made the wrong choice when they got emanated from Maha Vishnu. That so-called choice is absolutely illogical and also besides illogical – it’s unfairand unjust!

Why would Prabhupada name his magazine “Back to Godhead?” He wasn’t referring to brahmajyoti, to brahma-nirvana! How can you go back when you were never there? This is a fatal flaw in this philosophy that you’re advocating, which, by the way, is just as convoluted as mayavada philosophy. It’s not straightforward, and it’s loaded with concoction.

If you’re in that unfortunate third strata; then how could you not have resentment? You have to have resentment! Why, arbitrarily, YOU get put into the worst position? Why are you singled out as nitya-baddha? You’re gonna have resentment! You may or may not be conscious of it, but you’re going to have it. Do you finally now see these fatal flaws in what you are pushing? Whether you do or not, stop pushing any more of this crap on me!
Yours faithfully,


1 Purushottama Das { 06.05.23 at 13:14 }

Greeting and obeisances to Kailasa Candra Prabhu and all the readers.

I have followed this website and its publications for many years now and appreciate the sober tone. I also appreciate a good debate.

On this topic I would like to share a series of slokas which I believe help illuminate the subject matters of sambandha-jnana (Bhagavan’s antaranga, bahiranga, and tatastha-saktis) as one not of geography so to speak but of consciousness and its various states realizable by the souls in the marginal position. To understand this subtle distinction of looking at Reality as a matter of geography vs ontology/consciousness, requires surrender from us as we must free ourselves from the tendency of the false ego to objectify everything, including divine knowledge and the Lord. He is the Supersubject, we are objects subject to His sweet will.

2 Lalita Liechti { 01.22.24 at 17:50 }

It seems unjust and unfair to us rascals but it is the Lords Sweet Will in what Lila he wants us to participate . I always wondered why Srila Prabhupada named the Jounal Back to Godhead if we were never there. He is in us and all around us all the time even if we are not conshious about him we are always with God.

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